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Drill rig Storage

Drill rig Storage

pelelo

(Geotechnical)

(OP)

22 May 17 17:31

Guys,

I might have an opportunity in the near future to buy an old/used/small rig for geotechnical investigation works.

At this time I don't own any company, I just work for a regular company. So thinking ahead, I was planning to store the rig in one of the parking lots of the many storage units that are available in USA. I though about this as I don't own any shop nor big house.

The storage unit representative told me that in order to proceed with this, I need to show her the rig insurance.

Again, since I don't have any company yet, I don't have any rig or commercial insurance.

My plan is buy the rig and store it for about 6 or 7 months, until I get all the pieces together to start running a company. I understand that the cost of the rig is a good opportunity to invest.

Someone told me about a "general liability policy", which might be enough to cover for the insurance of the rig but I have no clue how this works.

I know this is not the first time this happens to someone who wants to run a business in the future, unfortunately all the pieces don't fall in order or sequence to start operating, so I guess whenever an opportunity arises, I guess you need to take advantage of that.

Does anyone has any advice about this?

Please let me know,

RE: Drill rig Storage

GeoPaveTraffic

(Geotechnical)

22 May 17 18:21

Since you don't have a business yet, you may have to purchase this as an individual. Not sure of the implications of doing it that way.

General liability insurance covers items like vehicles (your personal car insurance is a type of limited general liability) and real property. You should be able to purchase it from any insurance broker. Be sure to tell them that you are just going to store the drill rig for xx months, that should lower the rate.Since you don't have a business yet, you may have to purchase this as an individual. Not sure of the implications of doing it that way.

Mike Lambert

RE: Drill rig Storage

oldestguy

(Geotechnical)

22 May 17 18:43

If you are very mechanically inclined, have a good stock of tools, Know how to weld, etc., you'd be very lucky to have everything work out. I've seen several companies start into doing test borings, etc. and only those highly experienced have succeeded. Those with no prior drill rigs hands on didn't do well at all, sold the rig and went back to former work. Be prepared for several lean years at best.

RE: Drill rig Storage

pelelo

(Geotechnical)

(OP)

22 May 17 18:55

GeoPaveTraffic,

Thanks, I will do more research about the General liability insurance coverage being purchase as an individual. Hopefully they will understand that the rig will not be in use for XX months instead of suggesting me to get a "commercial policy" and requiring me to formally set up a business.

oldesguy, thanks for the heads up. Yes, in the parking spot I went to visit, there is enough room to account for the additional drilling tools.

Thanks again,

RE: Drill rig Storage

oldestguy

(Geotechnical)

22 May 17 19:14

My remarks have nothing to do with tool storage. It has to do with having themselves properly equipped and knowing how to use them. I've seen those with little previous drilling and mechanical fixing or know how wasting valuable time, hiring mechanical help, etc. I also have seen them in trouble for not having proper driver's license. I'd not get into it if there are any questions. Also, never run a drill rig solo. Accidents can happen. It's a dangerous job. I've seen two guys killed in the business.

RE: Drill rig Storage

geomane

(Geotechnical)

22 May 17 19:16

Also, you should make sure the drill rig you are planning to purchase can handle the soils/rock in the area you will be practicing. Site accessibility should also be factored in (i.e. track-mounted, truck-mounted, ATV-mounted, trailer-mounted, etc.)

RE: Drill rig Storage

pelelo

(Geotechnical)

(OP)

22 May 17 19:28

Thanks again for the valuable advise.

RE: Drill rig Storage

Doctormo

(Geotechnical)

23 May 17 17:59

As a side issue, owning and maintaining drill rigs is a costly venture and many geotechnical engineers/companies have someone else do the drilling (contract drilling) and just do the logging and sample evaluation in the field. This seems to vary a lot across the US with company owned drill rigs being popular in some areas and not even considered in other areas, especially where test pits are common and backhoes are needed. The problem is that one needs a couple of different drill rigs to handle most sites like jmcc3265 notes above. Many sites cannot be traversed with truck mounted rigs when they are wet or frost is coming out of the ground. Most all-terrain rigs require a truck/trailer to haul them around so this gets expensive also.

Decide if you want to be a driller or a geotechnical engineer as it may not be as nice at it may first seem to do all the work yourself.

RE: Drill rig Storage

oldestguy

(Geotechnical)

23 May 17 20:05

OG once more. Ok so you are out there drilling, taking split spoon samples and the power quits with the sampler stuck down there. Or you blow a hydraulic hose with oil all over the place. With an older rig all kinds of things happen. To top it all off the truck is stuck. This reminds of the time I time to one of our drill rigs and there had been rain and the ground was very soft. Rig was stuck. Drillers wanted to csll a wrecker to pull them out, (note two drillers). I said put on the tire chains. They said "We have to be out on dry ground so we can drive on them and then attach." I had good clothes on and was about to show how to do it anyhow. Now how's come those experienced drillers didn't know that simple job?? You don't need a jack but a shovel helps a little. And you might get muddy. With duals it is a little tricky.

RE: Drill rig Storage

Ron

(Structural)

24 May 17 01:03

As others have noted...drill rigs are a pain in the ass!

If you go this route, insurance is not a big issue. You can get commercial general liability (CGL) as an individual or company. Since the drill rig is not a vehicle, it is classified as equipment so no big deal.

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RE: Drill rig Storage

pelelo

(Geotechnical)

(OP)

24 May 17 14:53

Thanks again,

Yes, to own a drill rig is a big responsibility, I am aware of that. I have seen few family business owing drill rigs and at the beginning is some sort off learning curve, then later, things work as expected.

I was told with the "liability insurance" (for my purposes) is enough. Remember I mentioned my plan is to store the rig at parking spot of a storage unit (maybe a RV parking spot), for few months, until I get everything organized to start officially / legally.

Another insurance company told me if I get a "full coverage" insurance it will be way more expensive (obviously) than the liability insurance. Since the equipment will not be in use for a while, "full coverage" might not me necessary.

RE: Drill rig Storage

oldestguy

(Geotechnical)

24 May 17 18:41

If there is risk of vandals, Then fire or other than liability insurance.

RE: Drill rig Storage

BigH

(Geotechnical)

27 May 17 04:45

I worked for Geocon (Toronto) back in the mid to late 70s. We had our own drill rigs then. But it got to a point that it was much easier to use outside drilling specialists. Didn't give you as much wiggle-room when billing the client - but made life easier.

RE: Drill rig Storage

oldestguy

(Geotechnical)

27 May 17 14:32

I was in a company that had our own drill rigs, testing lab, etc. and a single owner. That drilling section of the company never was better than break even. A few of the engineers and my self bought out the owner. We broke off the drilling as another company, separate owners. That worked out very well, using them and passing their cost to the clients.

RE: Drill rig Storage

geomane

(Geotechnical)

27 May 17 15:59

I agree with Big H and OG. 80 percent of the stress from my job comes from drill rigs. Every morning on my way to work, if I receive a phone call, I pray it is not the drillers calling to tell me they are stuck or something on the rig broke. Then I have to go back to the client and inform them we will be behind schedule. We will also likely lose money on the project due to drill rig repairs and/or paying for a dozer to pull us out. There a lot of headaches when it comes to drill rigs.

I do however, like having at least 1 drill crew.

RE: Drill rig Storage

mikeofBelAir

(Geotechnical)

5 Jun 17 13:55

This thread is dredging up a LOT of memories. Let me share some....
As pointed out above, drilling is seldom a profit-center; it can be a foot-in-the-door to get a contract, and that's good. As a GeoTech Engineer, you have more of an appreciation for the data and the samples than the average driller who only cares about making as much footage ( and therefore, money) as he can, but isn't all that careful about logging in every change in strata.
Drill rigs live a harsh life, and require much maintenance. They even seem to break down when not in use. They will always break down in the most inconvenient location--usually in whatever standing water is on the site.
Drill rigs need to be running to make money. Trying to schedule one for part time use is difficult--you still have to keep your drilling crew profitable, somehow. Now, if that is just you and a tech, and you have other ways to be billable, then it might be OK.
Know the limitations of your equipment and abilities. 10'-15' holes are very different from 150' deep holes. A rig that can spin HSA in clay to 150' is much bigger than one that is best limited to 15' I know the Owners of the companies I worked for always stretched whatever I told them was the capability of the machines we had. If I said " Its a good rig for 15' holes", they'd bid 60' holes. When we got a larger rig that could handle the 60' holes, they immediately bid 100+ holes.
Also remember safety--you are responsible for the safety of yourself and everyone else around the rig. I beat up myself pretty good, but never got anyone else hurt.

Not trying to discourage you at all. It seems like you have an idea of a way to do your job, and serve your Clients better--that is commendable. Just do it with your eyes as wide open as possible.

RE: Drill rig Storage

oldestguy

(Geotechnical)

5 Jun 17 14:37

This old guy with another point. Most jobs cannot afford the luxury of an engineer out there logging, etc. So you have to depend on the guys doing a great job every time. However, minor things can develop and come back to bite you in big ways. The result of "supervising" does not always result in happy workers. Experienced crews can shortcut the work and you will never know it, usually. I won't detail some of them, but they can be ingenious. However, a smart supervisor showing up an inopportune time can help minimize them. So, it's not just equipment problems, but people problems to watch for also.

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Hello all, this will take me a bit to get this posted with several posts, I will do it as I have free time in the evenings.

If you have done this or have knowledge that you want to share on this adventure, jump on here and let us know how you did it.

So for 18 months or so I have been interested in having the ability to drill my own water well. I have some land and I want to be able to install a few solar pumps in different areas to keep my food plots watered. Some of it is close to groundwater or near existing water sources and does not need to go very deep.

On the property an old existing cabin well is 135' deep and is now too far from the new cabin site which is about 1000' or so away. I know this because I pulled the pump and replaced it. It was 41 years old.

As far as water well drilling goes I am green to this. I have never actually seen a well drilling rig up close nor have I been around when one is drilled. But I have watched every video I could find on drilling a well, sealing a well and installing casing. Online, I have seen some very neat simple machines.

That being said I am also interested in down the hole hammers and rock cutting bits. I have been thinking of ways to make my own bits. The tri-cone bit is very neat. I am going to drill into sandy type soil that is mixed with red clay. I don't believe I will hit rock but who knows. I have many options I could choose, to get a well. I am most interested in doing this myself.

Some options I have thought of:

A. Buy a tractor mounted pto drill.
B. Use a skid steer with an existing auger attachment / Build a derrick to mount on a skid steer.
C. Build a trailer mounted drill unit.
D. Use a dump truck with bed extender, a long cable and heavy steel drop a pipe, hit the same place over and over to make a hole as it goes down.
E. Pay someone. I will do this if my project fails.
F. Other

Looking through the options:

A. - A tractor mounted drill was not going to have enough flexibility nor weight carrying ability.

B. - I have a skid steer and looked hard at using it. I spoke to several people about it and got laughed at.
I wanted the rig to be portable and to be able to move into the woods and do its job. After much thought I decided that what I wanted would be more than a skid steer could do. The weight of the derreck, drill and drill rod and misc was going to be heavy. I also did not want to ruin the hydraulic system on the skid steer since I will more that likely not be able to keep it very clean. I also do not want to work on one. They are hard to get into the engine bay and a pain to work on.

C. - A trailer mounted rig is a great option. For me the power unit was the problem, I did not want to take the time to fab a diesel engine and fuel tank to a trailer to power the hydraulics.

D. - The dump truck option works and I saw guys in texas going deep with this setup. This could be a 2nd attempt.

E. - Not ready to call a professional just yet.

F. - I am looking.

On my rig project, I have decided that I want it to be able to do several things hydraulically.

1. Run a drill. Forward and backwards.
2. Run a winch. Up and down.
3. Power drill up and power down. I want up and down pressure.
4. Level the derrick left and right
5. Level the derrick front to back.
6. A hydraulic drill stem clamp.
7. The derrick must tilt so that the mast can lay down for travel.

That is a lot of functions.

In addition to that I also want

8. To use 2 6' long drill stems each time I add stem. So it will need 12+ feet of up and down travel.
9. To use existing materials I have around the yard. Things I have laying around, to build it....
10. I want to be able to install 20' runs of casing.

I will be building this rig on my OWN in my free time. I want to keep it simple..

My main area of concern is moving the drill cuttings out of the hole. Most big guys use hydraulic mud pumps which are high dollar. I have decided that I will not pay for one of those systems. I will not have enough horsepower available nor do I have access to a nice hydraulic mud pump.

to be continued...

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